Patrice, but isn’t the law of existence (ui) being expressed and being expressed perfectly when the “Inner of Life” is no longer being expressed. By the way I really like your term Inner law of life.
Certainly without innate intelligence which is no longer required, the remaining Universal Intelligence required is far less. This causes the body to accelerate toward entropy (ashes to ashes).
I think that it has just changed “states” of organization, not necessarily more or less. UI and UF are still maintaining it in existence/organization, perfect existence/organization, although the matter of that particular livng thing is no longer under the organizational direction of its own II.
I would liken it to a livd plant bearing fruit to be picked. Before it is picked, it is under the II of the plant. At the moment of being picked, it no longer falls under the control/organization of the II in the plant and immediately returns to be under the “organization” of UI. Now, it can either be left as is and continue to be organized/maintained by UI and become whatever it becomes as a slimy pile of mush and absorbed ba,k into the soil or it can be consumed by animal or human and within short order come under the organization of the “new” II of whatever consumed it and it will become what it becomes in that living thing.
Disclaimer: All of the above scenarios are assumed to happen perfectly with 100% intelligence, 100% force and 100% matter and without interference.
As the law of conservation of energy is ALWAYS constant and since energy and matter are the same (E=mc2), matter is ALWAYS maintained in existence. Therefore, together without condemnation, we conclude that matter is ALWAYS organized, otherwise matter would not exist. Just look through an electron microscope and you observe the law of organization. Just look through the Palomar Observatory telescope and you observe the law of organization. –
– As we go further, together without condemnation, the question is: –
And no, I don’t think there is a Law of Dis-Organization. Organization is entity. No organization the non-entity and what we term “dis-organization” is likely just varying levels of organization. And even as dire or disatisfying as the “appearance” of dis-organization may be to our Educated Intelligence, I think that it is still controlled and coordinated, by SOME intelligence, be it Universal or Innate. Thoughts?
Hey all,
The one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is P.23., (the function of innate) “so that all parts of the body will have co-ordinated action for mutual benefit”. Possibly the highest level of organization, is the ability to work together for a common goal. This function is absent in death.
Hey Claude, Is anti-matter disorganized?
Lepton, photons (gamma rays) and neutrinos are highly organized anti particles and in accord with E=mc2. Anti-matter particles are charged in opposite of matter particles. So, anti-matter is organized.
I would say NO, because the process of decompositon is happening in a very organized and methodical way that is unique to the organism depending on size, soil conditions, temperature etc. that is all under the control of Universal Intelligence. Just because it is no longer guided by Innate Intelligence, is no reason for it to be less organized.
Less may be going on, but still very organized. (my opinion)
The function of innate intelligence is to ADAPT universal forces and matter for USE (which means: for maintaining ACTIVE ORGANIZATION) in the body, so that all parts of the body will have coordinated action for mutual benefit. –
– ACTIVE ORGANIZATION is from innate intelligence. Organization is from universal intelligence. Philosophically, it’s not organization that determines life or death. It is principle 24 that determines life or death. It is called: THE LIMITS OF ADAPTATION. –
– In other words, when matter has reached its utmost limitation… matter ceases to be adaptable, which means that matter ceases to be maintained in active organization regardless of the instructive information it is given by the innate intelligence of that body. The presence of innate intelligence is ALWAYS 100% as the dead body expresses the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the cell until the cell has reached its utmost limitation… Then what remains, the elements of the dead cell (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen,etc..), these elements express the instructive information of universal intelligence. Universal intelligence and innate intelligence are ALWAYS 100% perfect. And innate intelligence will ALWAYS adapt forces and matter for USE in the body AS LONG AS IT CAN DO SO WITHOUT BREAKING A UNIVERSAL LAW.
For example: The computer that I am using to blog today is a MacBook 10.4 with limited capabilities. I cannot download contacts from my i-phone 4 without an upgrade of my MacBook. Over the past few weeks I noticed a “sluggishness” of operations when I use the MacBook. Let’s supposed that at this time that my MacBook crashes *******************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&&&&&&&&&&&&&*****************########
@@@@@@@@@@@@#############%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&***********
##############$$$$$$$$$$$$%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&<<<<<<<<<<<<<"""""""""""""""""""""""""
::::::::::::::::::::++++++++++++++++++++++++++;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'''''''''''''''''''''''' 000000000000000000 ???????????????
Hey Claude,
Does II replace UI or add to it in living matter? II it seems, transforms UF and uses that force to coordinate matter. This occurs in addition to what is going on at the tissue level which is the ongoing expression of UF in matter. You have stated previously that interference to IF further increases the LOM. So does that mean II decreases/supercedes/modifies UF, the cause of LOM?
The cause of the further limitation of matter is VS which is INTERFERING with innate forces (pri.31). Innate intelligence never injure or destroy the structure in which they work (pri.25). –
– PS: Did you witness the matter of my computer crash yesterday?
May I add that the matter that is further limited by VS is the TRANSMITTING matter… and I know that YOU already know that! 😉
Straight,
In other words, matter is NEVER dis-organized or it could NOT exist any longer, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY due to the law of conservation of energy… energy being interchangeable with matter (E=mc2).
Straight,
In other words, matter is NEVER dis-organized or it could NOT exist any longer, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY due to the law of conservation of energy… energy being interchangeable with matter (E=mc2).
When my computer crashed yesterday, it was no less organized than before it crashed, yet as I was giving it instructive information, my computer was not responding to my commands no matter what. A dead body is not less organized than living one. Put them side by side and observe that both are highly organized. The difference between them is that the corpse has reached its utmost limitation of matter (and time) and is not responding to the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the body to be maintained ACTIVE… only the cells of the corpse are responding to the innate intelligence of the cell. The living body has NOT reached its utmost limitation yet and is responding to the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the body and is maintained ACTIVE. –
– Together without condemnation, we conclude that a dead body is as organized as a living one.
Hey Claude,
I must humbly disagree. The dead body does not posses Innate’s unital expression of organization ( all parts working for the good of all). The cellular intelligence is limited by the cell wall, each cell working individually for it’s own benefit. II brings something to the living body UI does not, organized teamwork.
PS
Yes, I witnessed the devastatingly horrible failure to communicate and am delighted you could rescue your electronic transceiver. How can you say it was equally organized in both cases? In one state (pre crash) it produces eloquent, mind transforming epiphanies, in the other (post crash) state nothing but garbage. I understand the parts were the same in both states (pre and post crash) but it was not until you adjusted (reorganized) it and got all the parts working together, did it produce the desired information for us to continue our dialog.
I guess we will have to seek mediation, Hey Joe, Is the Law Of Life a higher level of organization than the rules of death?
Yes, I totally agree.
I thought my responses were communicating that.
Steve,
Might you be confusing principle 21 & 23 (mission and function of ii) with principle 32 (coordination)? –
Coordination is NOT the same as organization. Coordination requires ACTIVE ORGANIZATION which is provided by the instructive information of the adapted universal forces by innate intelligence. On the other hand, ONLY the instructive information of universal intelligence is required for organization to exist. –
– We call universal intelligence the LAW of organization. We call innate intelligence the LAW of ACTIVE organization which fulfills the principle of coordination #32. –
– When my computer crashed, I was still present to it, yet the computer did NOT respond to my instructive information due to its limitation of its matter. And I am still present to it and unable to have it respond. I guess it is now a well organized computer corpse without ACTIVE organization (use) and it cannot fulfill the principle of coordination on this blog any longer. By the way, I am not using the same computer today either. 😉
The law of organization maintains existence. That’s universal intelligence. –
– The law of active organization coordinates the parts of an organism into harmonious action in order to fulfill their offices and purposes. That’s innate intelligence. –
Organization in harmony is about principle #32 which is the principle of coordination. The question that Joseph posted was: “Is a dead body less organized than a living one? Why or why not?”. The question was not about coordination. If it would have been, the matter of a dead body does not respond to the principle of coordination of ACTION through its organization. The matter of a living one does respond to coordination of action through its active organization.
– From the point of view of intelligence organization whether “active” or not is the same. From the point of view of matter the distinction becomes universal matter and innate matter. Yet we should remember that innate matter also manifest universal matter. –
– I find it interesting that on one hand you seem to favor the supremacy of universal intelligence over innate intelligence when dealing with their hierarchy… yet on the other hand you seem to favor the supremacy of innate intelligence over universal intelligence when dealing with their function. 😉 Yet, both universal intelligence and innate intelligence are 100%… which means perfection.
Steve, greater in what way? Is a broccoli plant more organized than a rock… or is it organized on a different level? Is a Fortune 500 company more organized than the local Mom and Pop grocery store? Might not the M&P store with QuickBooks and a laptop be more organized than the Fortune 500 Co. with an entire IT department that doesn’t know what it is doing? Is a subluxated person more organized than a rock?
Hey Joe,
If everything that exists is ruled by UI and some has, in addition to UI, II and life, yea I think that’s more. They never gave up any UI, the II is on top of and further organizing what is already the UI base. A subluxated person yes, a dead person no.
UI and II in all living matter where II on top of and further organizing what is already the UI base organization.
Would that mean then that loss of active organization by innate intelligence leaves UI to organize the matter?
And, interference to the innate forces of ii by the presence of vsis a cause of this loss of active organization by ii?
Hey Don,
Please remember always I am working this out myself, and not professing to be any kind of OC authority.
In my opinion UI is always organizing all matter. Some matter even though still being maintained by UF gets additional orginizational information ( IF ) from II. So yes if that matter losses the benefits of II, UI remains because it was always there.
The question becomes thus, If the interference to Innate Force due to subluxation further limits matter (dis-ease), does the opposite apply? Does II/IF somehow fortify matter ( still being structurally organized by UI ) therefore improve LOM?
Sorry no spell check
Steve, if you continually rub your hand over a desktop, which will wear out first , the desktop or your hand? The desktop, universal matter or your hand, innate matter. Your innate intelligence will continually create new cells to replace the cells of your hand that are worn away. The desk does not have that ability. I tend to think, that like you, I am not “any kind of OC authority” either. The only authority is the philosophy and objective of chiropractic as we interpret it correctly. We are all students, some in the 1st grade, some still in kindergarten! (some have yet to enroll) A 1st grader may be able to help the kindergartener with an addition problem but no one would consider him an authority on mathematics.
If I take the garbage out, I use my educated brain to perform physical work. There is no need to deal with mental philosophical principle as with this blog. Yet, as I am creating this post, I use my educated intelligence to perform mental intellectual work. There is no need to deal with physical labor. –
– In both of these instances, would you say that I have an educated intelligence to do physical work, that could be called: p-educated intelligence and that I have an educated intelligence to do mental work, that could be called: m-educated intelligence OR would you say that I have ONE educated intelligence to do both work? The answer is obvious is it not? –
– For this reason, I maintain that there is ONE metaphysical intelligence organizing organic matter and inorganic inorganic matter. The distinction is IN the CODING of the INSTRUCTIVE INFORMATION created by intelligence, whether for it is for organic matter or inorganic matter. There is NO need for two metaphysical intelligences… the same way there is NO need for me to have two educated intelligences. Metaphysical is ONE… only the physical can be fractional. –
– In reality, none of this is “totally one”, yet it “not totally two” either! Reality is paradoxical and complementary. ADIO viewpoint is the highest level of true logical reasoning. Free flow of instructive information is the chiropractic objective. WHEN we simply observe, together without condemnation, individuals, they reveal contradictions, create conflicts, and have their own character as well. Wisdom knows how to hold and to grow from this creative tension… the educated mind does not. Our educated mind splits the metaphysical intelligence into two that IT can manage and then pay a big price in regard to actual truth or understanding (what Strauss calls “di-psycho”. –
– It seems that, WHEN our educated mind simply OBSERVE without condemnation, that we can honor the underlying free FLOW of instructive information (not totally two) of “living things”, while also work with them in their distinctiveness (“not totally one”). The world almost always presents itself as a paradox, a contradiction, or a problem… like when our ancestors first did with promoting that chiropractic had found the cure for deafness… or like when they said they had found the way to get sick people well and keeping the well from getting sick. As MOVE toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy, we learn to see “all living things” in terms of FREE FLOW OF INSTRUCTIVE INFORMATION, while still respecting, protecting, and working with their very REAL limitations of matter. This is the great — perhaps the greatest — art form of chiropractic. It is the supreme task of the OC! –
– Having said that, I KNOW that chiropractic philosophy is formulated with 33 principles which include the concept of universal intelligence and innate intelligence, which in my opinion, is the MOST effective way to MOVE “toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy”. –
– I, like Joseph consider the chiropractic philosophy, its 33 principles and its objective, the AUTHORITY of chiropractic AS WE INTERPRET IT CORRECTLY. Hopefully this blog IS doing just that!
Hey Claude,
I think I get what you’re saying. Trouble is, I am just begining to understand Chiropractic Philosophy where it is now. I consider OCP to be at the front edge of our professional MOVE. Please do not overfeed.
YOU are to be congratulated for “rolling in the deep” with this blog. For OC to be at the front edge it cannot be “in opposition” to any existing chiropractic group structures or anybody at all. Any antagonistic action merely creates an “equal and opposite reaction.” The best criticism of “illogical faulty reasoning” is the practice of “logical excellent reasoning” is one of the core principles of this blog. Let’s just do it logically ourselves, and not waste any time criticizing others or the past! This, in fact, clarifies our own commitment and motivation. –
– Many things that chiropractors feel are “non-negotiables” today (slogans like “drugless, non-surgical, non-artificial, hands on, etc…) are at major variance with what the 33 principles are actually teaching us. How can anyone read about the principle of coordination, for example, and not know that the objective of chiropractic is to LACVS for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the living body? –
– Wouldn’t chiropractors think the clear non-negotiable in the 33 principles is innate intelligence and the vertebral subluxation along with the logical deduction of the chiropractic objective? Yet, it is barely emphasized. That could have changed history. It seems that chiropractors are not interested in changing this world. It seems that chiropractors were more interested being accepted by the medical profession and chiropractors are ending up acting pretty much like everybody else “in this world”. Very few chiropractic groups have a record for LACVS period. –
– OC is necessarily a MOVEMENT toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy and not trapped inside of one groups of the past with their historical biases, accidents, and limits. We finally recognized that chiropractors were aligned in most of their history with the Health Care System, had no freedom or ability to “get” the 33 principles’ clear teaching on LACVS and on coordination of action… REGARDLESS OF THEIR HEALTH STATUS.
Claude, I’m afraid you lost me somewhere between the garbage can and the curb. Are you proposing the idea first expressed by David Koch that there is only one principle of organization, universal intelligence?
Hey Joe,
So with the loss of II, we loose the ability to recognize and to adapt. Which means that if subluxation (sux.) further decreases LOM, then it (matter) is basically back to UI levels. As in your example, the cells of the hand wear away just like the desk ( UI vs UI ) but II rebuilds the hand and forms calluses in adaptation. The desk of coarse having no II, wears without rebuilding. Therefore a sux. of the nerves to the hand would prevent adaptation and rebuilding and allow the hand to wear like the desk.
So Joe,
Can I assume from your entry, JoeStrauss 07/22/2013, 10:28 pm:, you see a live body and a dead body equally organized. Adaptation and harmonious function count for nothing.
I think we are talking about apples, oranges, and bananas. A dead body is perfectly organized, has no adaptation (adaptability) and no harmonious function. A live body has perfect organization, 100% or less adaptation (but 100% adaptability) and 100% or less harmonious function, as I understand it.
Steve, a dead body and a live body are perfect expressions of what they respectively are , a body expressing universal intelligence (dead) and a body expressing ui (on the molecular level) and expressing ii on the CTOS level. Am I allowed 2 responses on the same comment?:)
Never thought of a dead body as perfectly organized or a perfect expression because I framed my thinking around the organization/coordination from ii.
Thanks for the explanation Joe. I now have “new eyes” to look at organization.
Universal intelligence is the law of organization which maintains matter in existence by giving to matter all its properties and actions. (pri.1). –
Innate intelligence is the law of ACTIVE organization (pri.21) which maintains matter alive by adapting universal forces and matter for use in the body (pri.23) to fulfill the principle of coordination (pri.32). –
– And Joseph, I had already posted on 7/22/13 @ 8:33pm, in response to Steve’s question that:
“The law of organization maintains existence. That’s universal intelligence. –
– The law of active organization coordinates the parts of an organism into harmonious action in order to fulfill their offices and purposes. That’s innate intelligence. ” 😉 –
– The point is that a dead body is perfectly organized by universal intelligence and a live body is perfectly organized by universal intelligence. The existence of the dead body and the existence of the live body are BOTH an expression of universal intelligence called the law of organization. That’s the start point of chiropractic philosophy and it’s the major premise. –
– It was in 1974, when I first heard Thom Gelardi WHO chose to propose the idea of possibly having only ONE intelligence at work, since innate intelligence is a part of and a part from universal intelligence. He used the analogy of the sun as being universal intelligence and the rays of the sun as being innate intelligence. He maintained that the sun and its rays were not separated from one another and that they were ONE. This ONE sun was performing different works that was fulfilling existence AND life on planet earth. –
– In my opinion, there is an apparent contradiction from both perspectives. It depends if we look at it from the point of view of intelligence (then it’s definitely one) or the point of view of matter (then it’s definitely two, namely an intelligence for universal matter and an “additional” intelligence for innate matter). Either way, the paradox exist and we are ALL called to hold the paradox together and own it within ourselves. Then, it is me WHO choose to accept the authority of the major premise, the subsequent 32 principles and the chiropractic objective. –
– I hope you’re on the curb and not in the garbage can. 😉
…. and we must ALWAYS remember that innate matter also consist of ADAPTED universal matter (pri.23). Of course, I know that YOU know that better than anyone I know! 😉
Hey Claude,
IMHO One intelligence negates P. 26. Intelligence as one, can only exist in the abstract. As we have discussed before intelligence must have force to be expressed. It must have matter to be evident. If we separate the triune of I, F, & M, we are no longer talking about Chiropractic, are we? I guess I am looking from the material POV, but what choice do I have, I am a material guy. (apologies to Madona)
Let us inquire, together without condemnation, into the nature of the universal cycle of life. Let us begin with the question: What is the universal cycle of life that principle #26 refer to?
Hey Claude,
No. 26. Comparison of Universal and Innate Forces.
In order to carry on the universal cycle of life, Universal
forces are destructive, and Innate forces constructive, as
regards structural matter.
The process of creation and destruction, life and death, giving and taking, positive and negative, and repetitions through time.
Hey Claude,
P. 2. The Chiropractic Meaning of Life.
The expression of this intelligence through matter is the
Chiropractic meaning of life.
P. 3. The Union of Intelligence and Matter.
Life is necessarily the union of intelligence and matter.
P. 4. The Triune of Life.
Life is a triunity having three necessary united factors,
namely, Intelligence, Force and Matter.
P. 2 Explains as I understand it, ALL life is Universal life. All material in existence is dependent upon Universal Intelligence. Some of that ALL is specialized (living) however, necessitating the demarcation and classification we designate as Innate(inborn) Intelligence. P. 20.
Principle #26 deals with the UNIVERSAL cycle of life and therefore deals with universal life which is EXISTENCE. As you can see, we are not separating intelligence, force and matter as you mentioned above, since EXISTENCE requires the three necessary factors of the triune.
You’ve found WHAT you were looking for… Madonna would be proud of YOU and YOU are ahead of Bono! 😉
Hey Claude,
P.26 would not be complete without Innate. It takes both factors to be a cycle. Universal only, would be a straight line. ALL things… are, does not a cycle make. If it were not for Innate, we would have nothing but structure. There would be no ability to affect mere existence. Living things must have Innate Intelligence to organize and maintain life beyond material substance alone. This would be a barren universe without it (II).
Our forefathers assembled an exquisite concise compilation of thought, we are tasked with the interpretation. If we change it significantly we no longer have Chiropractic Philosophy. The only deficit I can see is the principle that is obviously missing, P34. The Adjustment. A Chiropractic Adjustment is the how we address the subluxation.
Of course, innate intelligence is included in principle 26. Innate intelligence is a part of and a part from universal intelligence. It’s a paradox that we have to learn to accept and live with… the understanding of which is beyond the educated mind. Principle 26 includes ALL existence. The point is that intelligence is 100% perfection for BOTH universal and innate matter. We are NOT changing anything regarding the principles. For ONE to own the philosophy, ONE must learn about ALL the parts the philosophy, specially those that takes ONE to a place ONE would rather NOT go. In this case, to own it, means to accept the authority of ALL the principles, including principle 26 and including the fact that, principle 26 cannot be understood completely. Pretty much like the innate forces traveling through transmitting matter are really universal forces invested with NEW instructive information. Notice that the function of intelligence in principle 8 is to create force. Yet, the function of innate intelligence is to adapt universal forces created by universal intelligence. One more paradox to accept in order to own the philosophy. 😉 –
– It is me WHO choose to be fine with that and it is me WHO choose to be forever grateful to our chiropractic forefathers for the GENIUS of the 33 principles as authority of chiropractic!
It’s much easier to MIX than to own the philosophy and practice the chiropractic objective. WHY, do you think, that there are so many good chiropractors WHO choose to MIX and practice the medical objective?
M.O.-Because that’s what they were taught.
Mix – Money, attend symptoms, less social friction.
Both – Lack of genuine curiosity.
I’m sorry was that a rhetorical question?
Did you jump threads or did I miss something?
Hey Folks,
I will be dropping the salutations so as not to lead people to believe we are having an exclusive conversation. Maybe that will encourage more joining in.
It is disorganizing.
Patrice, thank you for joining the discussion and welcome to the blog.
Because the Inner Law of Life is not longer organizing the body.
Patrice, but isn’t the law of existence (ui) being expressed and being expressed perfectly when the “Inner of Life” is no longer being expressed. By the way I really like your term Inner law of life.
Certainly without innate intelligence which is no longer required, the remaining Universal Intelligence required is far less. This causes the body to accelerate toward entropy (ashes to ashes).
I think that it has just changed “states” of organization, not necessarily more or less. UI and UF are still maintaining it in existence/organization, perfect existence/organization, although the matter of that particular livng thing is no longer under the organizational direction of its own II.
I would liken it to a livd plant bearing fruit to be picked. Before it is picked, it is under the II of the plant. At the moment of being picked, it no longer falls under the control/organization of the II in the plant and immediately returns to be under the “organization” of UI. Now, it can either be left as is and continue to be organized/maintained by UI and become whatever it becomes as a slimy pile of mush and absorbed ba,k into the soil or it can be consumed by animal or human and within short order come under the organization of the “new” II of whatever consumed it and it will become what it becomes in that living thing.
Disclaimer: All of the above scenarios are assumed to happen perfectly with 100% intelligence, 100% force and 100% matter and without interference.
As the law of conservation of energy is ALWAYS constant and since energy and matter are the same (E=mc2), matter is ALWAYS maintained in existence. Therefore, together without condemnation, we conclude that matter is ALWAYS organized, otherwise matter would not exist. Just look through an electron microscope and you observe the law of organization. Just look through the Palomar Observatory telescope and you observe the law of organization. –
– As we go further, together without condemnation, the question is: –
– IS THERE A LAW OF DIS-ORGANIZATION OF MATTER?
Claude,
Well said. Almost verbatim from what i said. 😉
And no, I don’t think there is a Law of Dis-Organization. Organization is entity. No organization the non-entity and what we term “dis-organization” is likely just varying levels of organization. And even as dire or disatisfying as the “appearance” of dis-organization may be to our Educated Intelligence, I think that it is still controlled and coordinated, by SOME intelligence, be it Universal or Innate. Thoughts?
I would like to hear from others WHO would choose to comment on this thread. 😉
Hey all,
The one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is P.23., (the function of innate) “so that all parts of the body will have co-ordinated action for mutual benefit”. Possibly the highest level of organization, is the ability to work together for a common goal. This function is absent in death.
Hey Claude, Is anti-matter disorganized?
Steve,
Lepton, photons (gamma rays) and neutrinos are highly organized anti particles and in accord with E=mc2. Anti-matter particles are charged in opposite of matter particles. So, anti-matter is organized.
I would say NO, because the process of decompositon is happening in a very organized and methodical way that is unique to the organism depending on size, soil conditions, temperature etc. that is all under the control of Universal Intelligence. Just because it is no longer guided by Innate Intelligence, is no reason for it to be less organized.
Less may be going on, but still very organized. (my opinion)
EVERYBODY… WATCH…
The function of innate intelligence is to ADAPT universal forces and matter for USE (which means: for maintaining ACTIVE ORGANIZATION) in the body, so that all parts of the body will have coordinated action for mutual benefit. –
– ACTIVE ORGANIZATION is from innate intelligence. Organization is from universal intelligence. Philosophically, it’s not organization that determines life or death. It is principle 24 that determines life or death. It is called: THE LIMITS OF ADAPTATION. –
– In other words, when matter has reached its utmost limitation… matter ceases to be adaptable, which means that matter ceases to be maintained in active organization regardless of the instructive information it is given by the innate intelligence of that body. The presence of innate intelligence is ALWAYS 100% as the dead body expresses the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the cell until the cell has reached its utmost limitation… Then what remains, the elements of the dead cell (carbon, oxygen, hydrogen,etc..), these elements express the instructive information of universal intelligence. Universal intelligence and innate intelligence are ALWAYS 100% perfect. And innate intelligence will ALWAYS adapt forces and matter for USE in the body AS LONG AS IT CAN DO SO WITHOUT BREAKING A UNIVERSAL LAW.
For example: The computer that I am using to blog today is a MacBook 10.4 with limited capabilities. I cannot download contacts from my i-phone 4 without an upgrade of my MacBook. Over the past few weeks I noticed a “sluggishness” of operations when I use the MacBook. Let’s supposed that at this time that my MacBook crashes *******************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&&&&&&&&&&&&&*****************########
@@@@@@@@@@@@#############%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&***********
##############$$$$$$$$$$$$%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&<<<<<<<<<<<<<"""""""""""""""""""""""""
::::::::::::::::::::++++++++++++++++++++++++++;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;'''''''''''''''''''''''' 000000000000000000 ???????????????
Hey Claude,
Does II replace UI or add to it in living matter? II it seems, transforms UF and uses that force to coordinate matter. This occurs in addition to what is going on at the tissue level which is the ongoing expression of UF in matter. You have stated previously that interference to IF further increases the LOM. So does that mean II decreases/supercedes/modifies UF, the cause of LOM?
Steve,
The cause of the further limitation of matter is VS which is INTERFERING with innate forces (pri.31). Innate intelligence never injure or destroy the structure in which they work (pri.25). –
– PS: Did you witness the matter of my computer crash yesterday?
Steve,
May I add that the matter that is further limited by VS is the TRANSMITTING matter… and I know that YOU already know that! 😉
Straight,
In other words, matter is NEVER dis-organized or it could NOT exist any longer, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY due to the law of conservation of energy… energy being interchangeable with matter (E=mc2).
Straight,
In other words, matter is NEVER dis-organized or it could NOT exist any longer, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY due to the law of conservation of energy… energy being interchangeable with matter (E=mc2).
The question was not if matter is DIS-ORGANIZED, but is it LESS ORGANIZED?
Straight,
When my computer crashed yesterday, it was no less organized than before it crashed, yet as I was giving it instructive information, my computer was not responding to my commands no matter what. A dead body is not less organized than living one. Put them side by side and observe that both are highly organized. The difference between them is that the corpse has reached its utmost limitation of matter (and time) and is not responding to the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the body to be maintained ACTIVE… only the cells of the corpse are responding to the innate intelligence of the cell. The living body has NOT reached its utmost limitation yet and is responding to the instructive information of the innate intelligence of the body and is maintained ACTIVE. –
– Together without condemnation, we conclude that a dead body is as organized as a living one.
Hey Claude,
I must humbly disagree. The dead body does not posses Innate’s unital expression of organization ( all parts working for the good of all). The cellular intelligence is limited by the cell wall, each cell working individually for it’s own benefit. II brings something to the living body UI does not, organized teamwork.
PS
Yes, I witnessed the devastatingly horrible failure to communicate and am delighted you could rescue your electronic transceiver. How can you say it was equally organized in both cases? In one state (pre crash) it produces eloquent, mind transforming epiphanies, in the other (post crash) state nothing but garbage. I understand the parts were the same in both states (pre and post crash) but it was not until you adjusted (reorganized) it and got all the parts working together, did it produce the desired information for us to continue our dialog.
I guess we will have to seek mediation, Hey Joe, Is the Law Of Life a higher level of organization than the rules of death?
Yes, I totally agree.
I thought my responses were communicating that.
Steve,
Might you be confusing principle 21 & 23 (mission and function of ii) with principle 32 (coordination)? –
Coordination is NOT the same as organization. Coordination requires ACTIVE ORGANIZATION which is provided by the instructive information of the adapted universal forces by innate intelligence. On the other hand, ONLY the instructive information of universal intelligence is required for organization to exist. –
– We call universal intelligence the LAW of organization. We call innate intelligence the LAW of ACTIVE organization which fulfills the principle of coordination #32. –
– When my computer crashed, I was still present to it, yet the computer did NOT respond to my instructive information due to its limitation of its matter. And I am still present to it and unable to have it respond. I guess it is now a well organized computer corpse without ACTIVE organization (use) and it cannot fulfill the principle of coordination on this blog any longer. By the way, I am not using the same computer today either. 😉
Hey Claude,
Please differentiate organization vs. active organization.
Steve,
The law of organization maintains existence. That’s universal intelligence. –
– The law of active organization coordinates the parts of an organism into harmonious action in order to fulfill their offices and purposes. That’s innate intelligence. –
Exactly, yet you refuse to see/admit, organization, in harmony is greater than in just existence
Steve,
Organization in harmony is about principle #32 which is the principle of coordination. The question that Joseph posted was: “Is a dead body less organized than a living one? Why or why not?”. The question was not about coordination. If it would have been, the matter of a dead body does not respond to the principle of coordination of ACTION through its organization. The matter of a living one does respond to coordination of action through its active organization.
– From the point of view of intelligence organization whether “active” or not is the same. From the point of view of matter the distinction becomes universal matter and innate matter. Yet we should remember that innate matter also manifest universal matter. –
– I find it interesting that on one hand you seem to favor the supremacy of universal intelligence over innate intelligence when dealing with their hierarchy… yet on the other hand you seem to favor the supremacy of innate intelligence over universal intelligence when dealing with their function. 😉 Yet, both universal intelligence and innate intelligence are 100%… which means perfection.
Steve, greater in what way? Is a broccoli plant more organized than a rock… or is it organized on a different level? Is a Fortune 500 company more organized than the local Mom and Pop grocery store? Might not the M&P store with QuickBooks and a laptop be more organized than the Fortune 500 Co. with an entire IT department that doesn’t know what it is doing? Is a subluxated person more organized than a rock?
Hey Joe,
If everything that exists is ruled by UI and some has, in addition to UI, II and life, yea I think that’s more. They never gave up any UI, the II is on top of and further organizing what is already the UI base. A subluxated person yes, a dead person no.
UI and II in all living matter where II on top of and further organizing what is already the UI base organization.
Would that mean then that loss of active organization by innate intelligence leaves UI to organize the matter?
And, interference to the innate forces of ii by the presence of vsis a cause of this loss of active organization by ii?
Hey Don,
Please remember always I am working this out myself, and not professing to be any kind of OC authority.
In my opinion UI is always organizing all matter. Some matter even though still being maintained by UF gets additional orginizational information ( IF ) from II. So yes if that matter losses the benefits of II, UI remains because it was always there.
The question becomes thus, If the interference to Innate Force due to subluxation further limits matter (dis-ease), does the opposite apply? Does II/IF somehow fortify matter ( still being structurally organized by UI ) therefore improve LOM?
Sorry no spell check
Steve, if you continually rub your hand over a desktop, which will wear out first , the desktop or your hand? The desktop, universal matter or your hand, innate matter. Your innate intelligence will continually create new cells to replace the cells of your hand that are worn away. The desk does not have that ability. I tend to think, that like you, I am not “any kind of OC authority” either. The only authority is the philosophy and objective of chiropractic as we interpret it correctly. We are all students, some in the 1st grade, some still in kindergarten! (some have yet to enroll) A 1st grader may be able to help the kindergartener with an addition problem but no one would consider him an authority on mathematics.
If I take the garbage out, I use my educated brain to perform physical work. There is no need to deal with mental philosophical principle as with this blog. Yet, as I am creating this post, I use my educated intelligence to perform mental intellectual work. There is no need to deal with physical labor. –
– In both of these instances, would you say that I have an educated intelligence to do physical work, that could be called: p-educated intelligence and that I have an educated intelligence to do mental work, that could be called: m-educated intelligence OR would you say that I have ONE educated intelligence to do both work? The answer is obvious is it not? –
– For this reason, I maintain that there is ONE metaphysical intelligence organizing organic matter and inorganic inorganic matter. The distinction is IN the CODING of the INSTRUCTIVE INFORMATION created by intelligence, whether for it is for organic matter or inorganic matter. There is NO need for two metaphysical intelligences… the same way there is NO need for me to have two educated intelligences. Metaphysical is ONE… only the physical can be fractional. –
– In reality, none of this is “totally one”, yet it “not totally two” either! Reality is paradoxical and complementary. ADIO viewpoint is the highest level of true logical reasoning. Free flow of instructive information is the chiropractic objective. WHEN we simply observe, together without condemnation, individuals, they reveal contradictions, create conflicts, and have their own character as well. Wisdom knows how to hold and to grow from this creative tension… the educated mind does not. Our educated mind splits the metaphysical intelligence into two that IT can manage and then pay a big price in regard to actual truth or understanding (what Strauss calls “di-psycho”. –
– It seems that, WHEN our educated mind simply OBSERVE without condemnation, that we can honor the underlying free FLOW of instructive information (not totally two) of “living things”, while also work with them in their distinctiveness (“not totally one”). The world almost always presents itself as a paradox, a contradiction, or a problem… like when our ancestors first did with promoting that chiropractic had found the cure for deafness… or like when they said they had found the way to get sick people well and keeping the well from getting sick. As MOVE toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy, we learn to see “all living things” in terms of FREE FLOW OF INSTRUCTIVE INFORMATION, while still respecting, protecting, and working with their very REAL limitations of matter. This is the great — perhaps the greatest — art form of chiropractic. It is the supreme task of the OC! –
– Having said that, I KNOW that chiropractic philosophy is formulated with 33 principles which include the concept of universal intelligence and innate intelligence, which in my opinion, is the MOST effective way to MOVE “toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy”. –
– I, like Joseph consider the chiropractic philosophy, its 33 principles and its objective, the AUTHORITY of chiropractic AS WE INTERPRET IT CORRECTLY. Hopefully this blog IS doing just that!
Hey Claude,
I think I get what you’re saying. Trouble is, I am just begining to understand Chiropractic Philosophy where it is now. I consider OCP to be at the front edge of our professional MOVE. Please do not overfeed.
Steve,
YOU are to be congratulated for “rolling in the deep” with this blog. For OC to be at the front edge it cannot be “in opposition” to any existing chiropractic group structures or anybody at all. Any antagonistic action merely creates an “equal and opposite reaction.” The best criticism of “illogical faulty reasoning” is the practice of “logical excellent reasoning” is one of the core principles of this blog. Let’s just do it logically ourselves, and not waste any time criticizing others or the past! This, in fact, clarifies our own commitment and motivation. –
– Many things that chiropractors feel are “non-negotiables” today (slogans like “drugless, non-surgical, non-artificial, hands on, etc…) are at major variance with what the 33 principles are actually teaching us. How can anyone read about the principle of coordination, for example, and not know that the objective of chiropractic is to LACVS for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the living body? –
– Wouldn’t chiropractors think the clear non-negotiable in the 33 principles is innate intelligence and the vertebral subluxation along with the logical deduction of the chiropractic objective? Yet, it is barely emphasized. That could have changed history. It seems that chiropractors are not interested in changing this world. It seems that chiropractors were more interested being accepted by the medical profession and chiropractors are ending up acting pretty much like everybody else “in this world”. Very few chiropractic groups have a record for LACVS period. –
– OC is necessarily a MOVEMENT toward a greater understanding of chiropractic philosophy and not trapped inside of one groups of the past with their historical biases, accidents, and limits. We finally recognized that chiropractors were aligned in most of their history with the Health Care System, had no freedom or ability to “get” the 33 principles’ clear teaching on LACVS and on coordination of action… REGARDLESS OF THEIR HEALTH STATUS.
Claude, I’m afraid you lost me somewhere between the garbage can and the curb. Are you proposing the idea first expressed by David Koch that there is only one principle of organization, universal intelligence?
Hey Joe,
So with the loss of II, we loose the ability to recognize and to adapt. Which means that if subluxation (sux.) further decreases LOM, then it (matter) is basically back to UI levels. As in your example, the cells of the hand wear away just like the desk ( UI vs UI ) but II rebuilds the hand and forms calluses in adaptation. The desk of coarse having no II, wears without rebuilding. Therefore a sux. of the nerves to the hand would prevent adaptation and rebuilding and allow the hand to wear like the desk.
So Joe,
Can I assume from your entry, JoeStrauss 07/22/2013, 10:28 pm:, you see a live body and a dead body equally organized. Adaptation and harmonious function count for nothing.
I think we are talking about apples, oranges, and bananas. A dead body is perfectly organized, has no adaptation (adaptability) and no harmonious function. A live body has perfect organization, 100% or less adaptation (but 100% adaptability) and 100% or less harmonious function, as I understand it.
Steve, a dead body and a live body are perfect expressions of what they respectively are , a body expressing universal intelligence (dead) and a body expressing ui (on the molecular level) and expressing ii on the CTOS level. Am I allowed 2 responses on the same comment?:)
Sure Joe, if you explain CTOS
Cell, Tissue, Organ, System
THANX
Never thought of a dead body as perfectly organized or a perfect expression because I framed my thinking around the organization/coordination from ii.
Thanks for the explanation Joe. I now have “new eyes” to look at organization.
Joseph,
Universal intelligence is the law of organization which maintains matter in existence by giving to matter all its properties and actions. (pri.1). –
Innate intelligence is the law of ACTIVE organization (pri.21) which maintains matter alive by adapting universal forces and matter for use in the body (pri.23) to fulfill the principle of coordination (pri.32). –
– And Joseph, I had already posted on 7/22/13 @ 8:33pm, in response to Steve’s question that:
“The law of organization maintains existence. That’s universal intelligence. –
– The law of active organization coordinates the parts of an organism into harmonious action in order to fulfill their offices and purposes. That’s innate intelligence. ” 😉 –
– The point is that a dead body is perfectly organized by universal intelligence and a live body is perfectly organized by universal intelligence. The existence of the dead body and the existence of the live body are BOTH an expression of universal intelligence called the law of organization. That’s the start point of chiropractic philosophy and it’s the major premise. –
– It was in 1974, when I first heard Thom Gelardi WHO chose to propose the idea of possibly having only ONE intelligence at work, since innate intelligence is a part of and a part from universal intelligence. He used the analogy of the sun as being universal intelligence and the rays of the sun as being innate intelligence. He maintained that the sun and its rays were not separated from one another and that they were ONE. This ONE sun was performing different works that was fulfilling existence AND life on planet earth. –
– In my opinion, there is an apparent contradiction from both perspectives. It depends if we look at it from the point of view of intelligence (then it’s definitely one) or the point of view of matter (then it’s definitely two, namely an intelligence for universal matter and an “additional” intelligence for innate matter). Either way, the paradox exist and we are ALL called to hold the paradox together and own it within ourselves. Then, it is me WHO choose to accept the authority of the major premise, the subsequent 32 principles and the chiropractic objective. –
– I hope you’re on the curb and not in the garbage can. 😉
…. and we must ALWAYS remember that innate matter also consist of ADAPTED universal matter (pri.23). Of course, I know that YOU know that better than anyone I know! 😉
Hey Claude,
IMHO One intelligence negates P. 26. Intelligence as one, can only exist in the abstract. As we have discussed before intelligence must have force to be expressed. It must have matter to be evident. If we separate the triune of I, F, & M, we are no longer talking about Chiropractic, are we? I guess I am looking from the material POV, but what choice do I have, I am a material guy. (apologies to Madona)
Steve,
Let us inquire, together without condemnation, into the nature of the universal cycle of life. Let us begin with the question: What is the universal cycle of life that principle #26 refer to?
Hey Claude,
No. 26. Comparison of Universal and Innate Forces.
In order to carry on the universal cycle of life, Universal
forces are destructive, and Innate forces constructive, as
regards structural matter.
The process of creation and destruction, life and death, giving and taking, positive and negative, and repetitions through time.
Steve,
Principles #2, #3, #4 mentioned life. What is the nature of this life in principles #2, #3, and #4?
Hey Claude,
P. 2. The Chiropractic Meaning of Life.
The expression of this intelligence through matter is the
Chiropractic meaning of life.
P. 3. The Union of Intelligence and Matter.
Life is necessarily the union of intelligence and matter.
P. 4. The Triune of Life.
Life is a triunity having three necessary united factors,
namely, Intelligence, Force and Matter.
P. 2 Explains as I understand it, ALL life is Universal life. All material in existence is dependent upon Universal Intelligence. Some of that ALL is specialized (living) however, necessitating the demarcation and classification we designate as Innate(inborn) Intelligence. P. 20.
Steve,
Principle #26 deals with the UNIVERSAL cycle of life and therefore deals with universal life which is EXISTENCE. As you can see, we are not separating intelligence, force and matter as you mentioned above, since EXISTENCE requires the three necessary factors of the triune.
You’ve found WHAT you were looking for… Madonna would be proud of YOU and YOU are ahead of Bono! 😉
Hey Claude,
P.26 would not be complete without Innate. It takes both factors to be a cycle. Universal only, would be a straight line. ALL things… are, does not a cycle make. If it were not for Innate, we would have nothing but structure. There would be no ability to affect mere existence. Living things must have Innate Intelligence to organize and maintain life beyond material substance alone. This would be a barren universe without it (II).
Our forefathers assembled an exquisite concise compilation of thought, we are tasked with the interpretation. If we change it significantly we no longer have Chiropractic Philosophy. The only deficit I can see is the principle that is obviously missing, P34. The Adjustment. A Chiropractic Adjustment is the how we address the subluxation.
Steve,
Of course, innate intelligence is included in principle 26. Innate intelligence is a part of and a part from universal intelligence. It’s a paradox that we have to learn to accept and live with… the understanding of which is beyond the educated mind. Principle 26 includes ALL existence. The point is that intelligence is 100% perfection for BOTH universal and innate matter. We are NOT changing anything regarding the principles. For ONE to own the philosophy, ONE must learn about ALL the parts the philosophy, specially those that takes ONE to a place ONE would rather NOT go. In this case, to own it, means to accept the authority of ALL the principles, including principle 26 and including the fact that, principle 26 cannot be understood completely. Pretty much like the innate forces traveling through transmitting matter are really universal forces invested with NEW instructive information. Notice that the function of intelligence in principle 8 is to create force. Yet, the function of innate intelligence is to adapt universal forces created by universal intelligence. One more paradox to accept in order to own the philosophy. 😉 –
– It is me WHO choose to be fine with that and it is me WHO choose to be forever grateful to our chiropractic forefathers for the GENIUS of the 33 principles as authority of chiropractic!
There you go with that, a part of yet apart from….. I know, just because it’s clear doesn’t make it easy
Steve,
It’s much easier to MIX than to own the philosophy and practice the chiropractic objective. WHY, do you think, that there are so many good chiropractors WHO choose to MIX and practice the medical objective?
M.O.-Because that’s what they were taught.
Mix – Money, attend symptoms, less social friction.
Both – Lack of genuine curiosity.
I’m sorry was that a rhetorical question?
Did you jump threads or did I miss something?
Hey Folks,
I will be dropping the salutations so as not to lead people to believe we are having an exclusive conversation. Maybe that will encourage more joining in.
Steve,
It was in response to what you said which was: “I know, just because it’s clear doesn’t make it easy”… It was a rhetorical question! 😉
That’s ok Claude, that was a rhetorical answer.