Evoulution is a theory based upon the premise that a lesser form can change into a more complex or more adaptable form as a result of time plus chance. Adaptation, on the other hand, is intelligently-directed changes in an organism, the result of temporary or permanent changes in the matter, as a response to the environment. BJ considered both as being possible and hence chiropractic philosophy does not rule out the possibility of either. That is why the major premise does not address the issue of the creation of matter but only the intelligent and ongoing organization of it.
Ok Joe,
Here is your new word for the day,……ADAPTOLUTION: An intelligent organism’s ability to change with the times …..(and the times, they are a-changin…Dylan)
This could be applied to our de-personified philosophy as well.
Hey Joe; isn’t that why this blog is called Chiropractic Outside the box? We have adapted outside of BJ’s box!
Hi fellow philosophical explorers,
I’m trying to bring this one back. Yes, I know. Chiropractic, the 33Ps,
We don’t have to work with creation, or how life forms have developed, or passed their adaptive traits to their offspring, or how the progression of the organism, the life form, innate intelligences homes, from plant to animal -! amoeba to fish reptile amphibian bird mammal monkey man, etc.
Yet we bring up evolution, and it’s inadequacies, its conjectures within the COTB context.
We mention intelligent design, the intelligence in form, from molecular to biochemical, to cell, tissue, organ, organism.
Yes. Chiropractic addresses Life. It addresses matter and it’s existence, or maintaining of its existence as organized forms.
The 33 cover a lot of ground.
ADIO encompasses the wishes of intelligence expressed by matter.
ADIO embarks into a bigger picture, a bigger purpose being played out in this world of matter and energy, in this world of interrelated biological life forms, harmoniously interconnected into multitudes of cycles, etc.
Claude, I think, has stated, look at the major premise, and any handful of deductions can deduce THEORIES, on the passing of survival adaptations to future generations, perhaps forwarding a specie adaptation into another species.
Joe has stated, we don’t entertain theories. Principles yes, not theories.
Certainly, RWS has entertained creation within his explanation of the major premise. Even reggie, within his Triune Thesis’ refers to creation
(P286 making the message simple >> ‘It is accurate, then, to state that all matter is created and maintained in existence by the organizing activity of Universal In- telligence. This is a rephrasing of the major premise of Chiropractic.’)
Ok, so we, at this time, 2015, have evolved, refined the 33 interpretation to exclude creation. Right?
I’m just saying. The philosophy, the chiropractic philosophy, the 33Ps, our basic science. Has NO deduction, specific, as a discussion, to deal with the organization of all the biochemistries, the organization of the molecular, metabolic machinery, as reflected intelligently in design, and maintained in organic existence thru the workings of the adaptations of innate intelligence within LIFE FORMS.
We say that innate intelligence, active organization IS AT CAUSE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT of let’s say the embryo into a human. From life to life.
We speak of innate intelligence using the nervous system to propel the mental impulse. It’s like innate intelligence is in EVERYTHING that’s living, that grows, that develops, that adapts, that evolves (bad word).
BUT WE CANT. WE WONT DISCUSS Creation of intelligently created matter that innate intelligence preserves in a constructive state. ALIVE.
WE ARE PHILOSOPHERS. We have even discussed + and – survival, and perhaps how it relates to the development of a species, maybe? Perhaps?
Wouldn’t it be interesting if we could logically deduce how innate intelligence is involved with the creation of the intelligent machinery that functions metabolically, etc. and supports by maintaining it in adaptive living existence and perhaps how that relates to the formation(s) of human life, and of all living things.
NOT CHIROPRACTIC ?
OK.
I’ve said my peace (piece)
David, when you write “(P286 making the message simple >> ‘It is accurate, then, to state that all matter is created and maintained in existence by the organizing activity of Universal In- telligence. This is a rephrasing of the major premise of Chiropractic.’),What are you referring to. There is no page 286 or principle number 286 in Reggie making the message simple? (I have a first edition published in 1997 and it only has 267 pages with the appendix.)………Okay I found the statement on page 231 of the first edition.. Keep in mind that Reggie wrote his PhC dissertation based upon BJ’s and Stephenson’s writings when universal intelligence was considered synonymous with God and hence the Creator. I think Reggie would reject that idea today and explain his use of the term “created” as being the principle, mechanism or medium by which a religious/theological entity, which is not part of chiropractic philosophy or the 33 principles designed and created all matter.I would like to respond to your entire comment but I will do that in another reply, leaving this one to those who may have another or different understanding of Reggie’s Triune.
Just to note Joe. This Reggie edition is Your eBook download version. Did it a few weeks ago.
Always 🙂
David, Thanks, that explains it.
Hi Joe,
I still await your reply (see above – per intelligent design (kind of) and the role innate intelligence has in the structuring of that design and it’s functional operation).
Now that time has passed, I have another question. Me? A question?
Yes 🙂
As per
‘P7. The Amount of Intelligence in Matter – The amount of intelligence for any given amount of matter is 100%, and is always proportional to its requirements.’
When we say ‘it’s requirements’ are we referring to the requirements of matter? Aren’t those requirements the properties and actions of matter, and if so wouldn’t that be CIRCULAR READONING?
What do we mean, the requirements? Isn’t what matter is used for , ADIO wise, defined by the intelligence that maintains it?
(Thinking out loud ) or maybe matter, once in existence can be used for many different things and effected by laws of temperature, and all the physical laws and depending how those requirements make demands on the matter, determines the amount of intelligence???
Still, it feels very circular.
Perhaps you can untwist me.
A million dollar philosophical roll 😉
David
You just don’t know WHAT you’re dealing with… properties and actions is about EXISTENCE, not ACTIVE organization.
It is not circular reasoning David. What I believe this principle is saying is that whatever the needs of the matter, whether universal or innate matter, those needs are perfectly met.
And how do we apply LOM to this perfection?
In a sense, if innate forces cannot adapt universal forces (EIF exceed IRF), then there is a separation of innate intelligence from innate matter, and essentially it becomes universal matter (destructive) to it’s organization?
Are We saying that Innate Matter, being always perfect IS always adapted, meaning actively organized, and coordinated for mutual benefit, and if NOT, then there is a LOM rendering Universal Forces as an impediment to Life, to active organization, coordinated organization for mutual benefit?
Thus Normality becomes a validation of the Organism, in it’s perfection (innate matter), and even in it’s LOM, which still is a Universal Matter Perfection (Rationalizing here, perhaps).
Am I making sense?
Claude,
Wait a second wait a second.
2’parts to the above question
Part 1. Previous question. Innate intelligence. Active organization
Part 2. Just asked it. P7? Existence. Universal intelligence ONLY.
Yes I read in joes Chiro philosophy book p 207. P7. He even states the awkwardness of the word proportional. That p7 means that all matter needs the same amt of attention. And I get that. Put the word
‘Requirements’??
It’s a word that defines matter, but are matters requirements determined by intelligences giving of properties and actions?
I say yes, and no. Actually, the universal forces that are created by ui, determine universal physical laws, which is the LIMITATIONS or the GAMING LAWS that determine how matter will interact with other matter, all determined by how ui set up the rules.
It’s all very circular. Understand?
Yes I can leave it alone. Take the understanding of p7, as joe describes in his p101 book, but I have questions, I have searching inquiry to a life living ADIO vs living OIBU. And how to present truth to people, as a chiropractor, a noble, humble, wise chiropractor,
And father and husband and man and friend and man.
Anyway. Understand?
Yes I know.
Carry on ADIO.
1st question 1. Intelligent design. DESIGN!!! Developing embryo, DNA?
Where does p21, p23 come into play in the intelligence behind the design, not just the process of adaptation?
David,
You are DEFINITELY personifying universal intelligence, as Joseph intimated before, when you post: ” GAMING LAWS that determine how matter will interact with other matter, all determined by how ui set up the rules. It’s all very circular.” Universal intelligence does not set up the rules, universal intelligence IS the created RULES (law) of organization and it ONLY acts. “A universal intelligence (law) IS in all e/matter…” Law appears at creation and it is beyond chiropractic. The creation is from theology and is beyond chiropractic. The start point of chiropractic is the major premise, NOT theology. You posted: ” in the intelligence behind the design”. Behind the intelligent design is within the realm of theology NOT chiropractic. The start point of chiropractic is the major premise, NOT theology. –
– Let me state is again and again and again and again and again: THE START POINT OF CHIROPRACTIC IS THE MAJOR PREMISE! 😉
Claude,
Yes yes yes… You’re a busy boy.
Listen. Yes, My GAMING LAWS was a bad choice of words.
Incidentally, I thought FORCE was more analogous to LAW.
(p11), but OK. Whatever YOU say.
OK so, if the construction of living matter having an intelligent formation, function, structure, without which there WOULD BE NO LIFE. If that is not relevant to Chiropractic Philosophy, and I concede, it IS NOT in the Major Premise, but it WAS, in the past, interpreted from the Major Premise (RWS, BJ, Reggie, etc.), and I have even seen on these postings.
THEN I DON’T WANT TO SEE ANY REFERENCES TO EMBRYO DEVELOPMENT, OR INNATE INTELLIGENCE RUNNING THE BODY, OR INNATE INTELLIGENCE DOING ANY, ANY ANY ANY OTHER THING EXCEPT….MAINTAIN ACTIVE ORGANIZATION AND ADAPTING UNIVERSAL FORCES. THAT’S IT
I think it’s a mistake not to explore it. I think it’s problematic when sighting ORGANIZATION AS EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENCE.
That’s not a CHIROPRACTIC TRUTH!!! WHEN YOU SEE ORGANIZATION, YOU’RE SEEING INTELLIGENT DESIGN. NOTHING TO DO WITH CHIROPRACTIC. When You’re seeing trees, and nature and the interconnectedness, the intelligence of it all, NOTHING TO DO WITH CHIROPRACTIC!
To me….. THAT IS A CONNUMDRUM.
DOUBLE SPEAK
AND FRANKLY A GAP THAT MUST BE CLOSED…
Yes, Chiropractic is about the Law of Life (active organization), but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORGANIZATION THAT INTELLIGENCE IS SUGGESTED TO BE THE CAUSE OF, AS REGGIE GOLD TALKED ABOUT.
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHIROPRACTIC.
THAT IS INTELLIGENCE IN DESIGN.
DONE
The only aspect(s) that the 33 concerns itself with is
1. That there is a triune (How you chiropractically can apply the triune is per the 33, that’s it. Which Basically is
2. Maintaining Life by maintaining active organization by adapting universal forces (destructive), to innate forces or innate matter (constructive), and thus coordinating parts so they can have mutual benefit. This one is a little sticky, because is the coordination a factor of innate intelligence, or is it a factor of the inherent functionality of the MATERIAL system working in a Living Structure (do to an intelligently designed organism) >> but we can’t refer or defer to THAT, be cause that’s not within the 33, directly. ONLY MAINTAINING WHAT IS, is
discussed.
3. So the philosophy is basically about Life, constructive forces, and Non-Life (the matter life is made of, which is inherently destructive.
That’s the philosophy. The Adjustment is about Force that Life uses to correct a LOM so it can continue doing it’s thing. THAT’S IT
4. VITALISM IS NOT BEING SPOKEN ABOUT IN FULLNESS OF IT’S BREATH. CHIROPRACTIC IS A MERE SPECK OF WHAT VITALISM ENCOMPASSES.
Fine…
Chiropractic is about the execution of the principles of the Triune (the 33), not the structures upon which would seem to be invested with the triune (intelligence-force-matter) (eg. hemoglobin, our thumbs, etc.), and incidentally, Life Would not sustain an in operable, non-intelligent mechanism.
That would be like putting LIFE giving blood, (nerve impulse) (eg. Frankenstein), into a vaporless container or a water balloon, and expect those Life giving principles (21,23) to render a living object.
And – If no one wants to address this, or says, David, you’re barking up a stupid tree, or David, you’re observation is stupid, therefore won’t be addressed, or whatever.
I’ll wrestle with this syllogism ALONE
Ciao
Claude,
Question:
Does innate intelligence adapt the universal forces, of DNA, at the genome, and is this a very, Very significant event?
(You made reference to this, if I understand correctly in >> http://chiropracticoutsidethebox.com/2014/02/03/qa-44-hio/
And perhaps you could expound, once again, without condemnation of my inquiry, once again?
You see, my fellow colleague, I can accept, what is essential, but it helps me to put truths into context, so that I can explain from the deepest, most solid base of understanding what is relevant, to my PMs, and from, for myself.
David,
Is DNA physical e/matter? 😉
That stores alot of physical coded information (design – oops)
Claude
Yes sir
David,
Therefore, as per pri. 23, innate intelligence does adapt universal forces and the e/matter of the DNA at the genome. You must remember that LAW acts continually. The separate and distinct UNITED factors of the triune happen (flow) all at once. The union of intelligence and e/matter through instructive information (pri10) is the interface of the metaphysical intelligence (without limitation) and physical e/matter (with limitation) in time (pri.6) (with limitation). Yes! That a whole lot of adapting from innate intelligence (pri.23). 😉
THANK YOU CLAUDE.
There’s a whole lot of adaptin goin on – bj presley (not funny? o well)
And the fact, or observation that not only do we observe organization out there (in the stars, in the planets, AT THE ATOM) >> UI,
And we observe organization in the living spectrum >> (perhaps II at cause), the hows and whys it got that way, NOT CHIROPRACTIC.
That it MAINTAINS that way, only by being ALIVE >> Chiropractic!
yes/no (be kind – I need the love – Just like Captain Kirk needed the love too from bones and spock (rip) 😉
… and that’s a whole lot of maintaining ALIVE as well (pri.21). 😉
Ah grasshopper >> on the same wavelength 😉
I know this comment will probably not be picked up. Oh well.
There has been considerable discussion of ‘evolution vs adaptation’.
It’s been stated here that evolution is ‘the premise that a lesser form can change into a more complex or more adaptable form as a result of time plus chance’. Certainly, after reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal and the various links within, there IS MUCH empirical evidence showing a lineage between many many different structures of bipeds through out eons of time (100,000 years, etc.), with a gradual evolving if you will, a shift into greater skill, educated intelligence capacity, physical control, etc. Some premise MUST account for it. AND why cannot EVOLUTION BE a result of time plus chance PLUS intelligence (design)(ui)(ii). WHY DOES THAT NOT MAKE SENSE?
Thru the lens of the 33, that there is an intelligent universe with an observed law that defines the maintaining of material existence as organized, and that there is a law we define as innate intelligence, that showcases LIFE, being such that which possesses the Signs of life, exhibiting an Active organization of e/matter, adapting ALL universal intelligent yet destructive forces and e/matter into coordinated, mutually benefited parts, with centralized action. This to my way of thinking CAN be of an Evolution based premise, where Life, has direction and purpose, and that purpose IS to EXPAND, to be BUILT UPON into greater and greater complexity, which is necessary in part for ‘thinking’ and for ‘awareness’ for spiritual connection, for adaptation of this complex being, MAN, to ones environment, with additional expression in matter, we call Creativity and Art and Thought, etc.
I know I know. This is off Chiropractic in topic, but you posted this comparison between evolution and adaptation. I’m not trying to exceed the bounds of Chiropractic 33, but I am trying to put it into as broad a context as possible, to allow the fullest ADIO understanding. There are too many LOMs and FACT’s with regard to LIFE, as humanly experienced and explored, to just ignore their significance within a scientific, observable context, or within a philosophical viewpoint.
Maybe it is time to place Intelligence within the context of Evolution, so that the discussion can continue. What is that discussion? That cause has effects which are causes to other effects. That in time, from the beginning, Evolution serves a purpose. That purpose took time and continues to take time to bestow it’s outcome, which might be one that is continuous after all. From once cell organisms to man to what we will become in the future, which God only knows. Crickets
David, it seems to me that intelligent design and chance are mutually exclusive.Does not “chance” exclude the action of intelligence?
David, –
Read the last sentence of Joseph’s original post and save yourself some energy and time to focus on the authority of the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science. The start point of chiropractic is the major premise. What you are addressing is beyond chiropractic.
Claude I gotcha. but it’s not beyond the subject of ADIO or cause-and-effect. Aren’t yesterday’s events relevant to today’s facts and arent today’s facts a means of testing the veracity of our philosophy? The context of our philosophy sits within the realm of ADIO. Perhaps without a bed of some ‘creation’ understanding, whether through faith or science, the philosophy has weak legs to stand on and is subject to the whims of reality. Granting viewpoint to an Authority should empower. it should not be, or preferably wished it was not subject to the control that OI has on matter both good and bad. It may exist and be non-conflicting but Atheism and OSC leaves a wide existential gap. A gap that cuts the legs off the major premise. I am looking to close that gap. I am sure I am not alone
David,
There is absolutely no gap in chiropractic. It’s start point is the major premise and its end point is the chiropractic objective. Chiropractic is INCLUSIVE of EVERYONE (with or without a belief system). ALL are in need of the chiropractic objective and entitled to it. It is the birthright of every living individual.
The gap is in me. I love you Claude 🙂