Philosophical rationalism maintains that reason alone is the basis for the determination of truth. (Descarte and Spinoza). Chiropractic on the other hand acknowledges the understanding of truth by two (perhaps three) means; rationalism and empiricism and perhaps faith( the Major Premise).
… and perhaps also intuition (hunches, thoughts-flashes).
I would say that the major premise IS based on reason. If we distill it down to saying that the universe is organized, we can see “evidence” of that organization all around us. We can use induction to arrive at the major premise in place of faith. While I do believe that faith is necessary and useful at times, I see no reason to rely on faith alone when we can see ample evidence pointing to a logical conclusion. Am I off base? What do you think?
Matt, you don’t need faith alone to accept the major premise, but you could accept it on faith alone. If using philosophical rationalism requires having faith in your ability to think. There that is what I think but since you moved I will not say more.
I like that reply Bill. Are you getting crafty in your old age or is it years of going head to head with chiro students?
Matt, the point of my post was that, we probably use a little faith because induction, in the end often necessitates a small leap of faith. I have not found any indication of how the Discoverer and Developer arrived at the Major Premise. There are many indications that they perceived universal intelligence and God as synonomous, which means that is was arrived at by faith. If anyone has any ideas aboiut their whole reasoning process, I would be interested in hearing them. We usually say that inductive reasoning (how we get our MP) needs something more (usually empiricism). That is why I said “perhaps” faith.
According to BJ and what he wrote and I quote: “At the age of 18 (when the author FOUND HIMSELF) he observed that an Innate INTERNAL to LIVING man contacted EVERY TISSUE cell, EVERY second, with EVERY organ in the living human body, from ABOVE-DOWN, INSIDE-OUT. This Innate sent messages, via nerves, from brain to body; told each cell WHAT to do, and received reply messages in return, whether it was, or was not done, all the time from birth to death. It was when he FOUND HIMSELF in his relations with his INNER SUPER-SELF, he decided to LISTEN TO INNATE MORE, and LESS attention to education, especially in gaining a knowledge of self, within himself, thereby gaining a greater knowledge of what made man tick in relation to his studies of life, health sickness, and how to recover lost values. He would listen, heed, and act upon ITS advices when thot-flashes came thru in a split-second”.
According to this quote, it seems that perhaps BJ was a mystic and received revelations (thought-flashes), like Abraham, Moses, St. Paul, consistent with the method of perception called: intuition. Don’t you think?
Nah.
Joseph, what do YOU get from this quote from BJ?
Claude, I would like to discuss those “thought flashes” with you sometime. My meager understanding of OSC was that thought flashes were not the product of ii but merely the function of a well organized mind. A mind with no disconnect (VS) from ii.
Steve,
Innate intelligence, innate brain, innate mind, educated intelligence, educated brain, educated mind, innate body, educated body. When you say “A mind with no disconnect (VS) from ii”, before we discuss those “thought flashes”, I need to know what do you exactly mean by that statement?
Gentlemen, please don’t argue. Now I don’t have the credentials of Joe, Claude or my good friend Bill, but it seems to me that reason alone will suffice. Lets say you had a bucket of 10 blocks, and you dumped them out over and over again. They would never fall into a perfect stack,one atop the other. If you ever see a perfect stack of blocks, all lined up one on top of the other, you would have to conclude it took intelligence to make that happen. Not chance, not the wind, not hope that it may happen, not even faith will stack 10 blocks, not once in a million tries. A trained monkey could do it but only because of the intelligence of the trainer. I believe DD said ORDER IS A SIGN OF INTELLIGENCE. Our MP and all the logical steps that follow can be verified by observation and reason, no leap of faith required.
Steve, there are men of science who believe themselves reasonable who say given sufficient time those blocks will one day come out into “a perfect stack” and they represent 80% of scientists. They call it evolution. I would say they are using faith, a belief in Darwin. They would probably say we are using the same method of perception, since neither can “prove” our point. By the way, I don’t argue with a hot blooded french Canadien especially since he gets to adjust me last!
Hey Joe, evolution is adaptation, something becoming more than it was due to environmental stimulus. I fail to see how blocks can ever become more than they are. Due to the law of entropy the blocks would become less square and therefore less stable, reducing the chances of “stacking”. However this is your blog and I know you are a man of faith, so I will concede and agree to disagree. With or without faith we can both enjoy the MP and resultant reasoning for the “ne plus ultra” of philosophies
I’m asking this question ONCE AGAIN. It’s been overshadowed perhaps or avoided. Could somebody PLEASE address it.
As per Steve’s reference ‘ORDER IS A SIGN OF INTELLIGENCE’, I’m referring to THE Major Premise. The Law of Existence. Sometimes we make reference to it as the Law of Organization, or use the FACT of observing Organization in the Universe as an induction pointing to the existence of Intelligence, Universal Intelligence.
Here’s my experiment. Take 1000 balls and randomly scatter them, Totally Disorganized. Now Add ONE law, let’s say all the balls are attracted to each other. Now you’ll see one MASS of balls all stuck together. If you observed this, you’d see AN ORGANIZATION. Why? because of the presence of ONE Law. I’m making the proposal that ANY Law, the existence of Laws (something that cause something else to happen, by formula, everytime, no exceptions) IS THE ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE. When we observe Organization we are not observing the Law of Organization. We are observing the Law of Laws. That’s what Laws do! THEY ORGANIZE.
The Observation of Order or organization doesn’t necessarily indicate Intelligence. It indicates LAW! or LAWS!
Yes we can say that The Law of Existence does just that. It allows Existence. But the fact of there being Existence, BY LAW, we call The Major Premise, P1, What is observed, yes is something organized, but not due to the FACT of P1. but due to the FACT of their EVEN being Laws!
P1 could be – There are Universal LAWS in all matter that continually gives to it all its properties and actions, thus maintaining it in existence. yes/no
Intelligence? That is more of what we see in living matter. Adaptation is expression of Intelligence. Existence and Organization is the expression of LAW(s).
Organization is the effect of ANY LAW. ALL LAWS ORGANIZE. INTELLIGENT OR NOT. Ok, tell me where I’ve gone astray. Please
David, the law of repulsion (if all the balls were negatively charged)would keep those balls from being “orderly organized”. Clearly it would indicate intelligence, to put only negatively charged balls together would take more intelligence than I possess. Doesn’t chaos theory demonstrate intelligence? Perhaps, I am not understanding your question? Is catabolism , in the human body, a demonstration of “active organization”? I would say yes! It is just one part of the manifestation of the “law of metabolism” or more correctly, a sign of life (the expression of intelligence through matter).
Darwin mentioned the survival of the fittest only twice in his book and mentioned mutual cooperation and love ninety-six times.
(Quoted from the movie “I AM” by Tom Shadyac).
Amazing isn’t it?
Ps: I’m just passing this information along.
Pps: The hot french canadien’s blood is coursing through my veins and the moon is rising, and I, I am on my way to get adjusted by Strauss in a couple of hours…. Something to look forward to indeed. 🙂
Hey Claude, “A mind with no disconnect (VS) from ii”… I guess what I’m asking is, without a subluxation present can innate intelligence communicate directly with educated intelligence. Or does ii just organize and maintain ei, giving ei the ability to produce thoughts? All thoughts then would be considered the product of ei and ed.mind only. I would never ask you to choose between BJ and JOE but traditional and new age philosophy ( BJ and OSC respectively ) are defining things differently. BJ said ii. contacted him directly with that “wee sma voice”, OSC says that can’t happen???????
Steve,
First of all, I want you to know that I love your questions!
Here, you are asking “without a subluxation present can innate intelligence communicate directly with educated intelligence”?
Innate intelligence is LAW and as such it CANNOT communicate directly with educated intelligence with or without subluxations any more than the LAW of gravity or the LAW aerodynamic or the LAW relativity can communicate with educated intelligence.
Second, “Or does ii just organize and maintain ei, giving ei the ability to produce thoughts”? Innate intelligence does NOT maintain educated intelligence. It is NOT its function. Innate intelligence adapts forces and matter for the body (pri.24). Innate intelligence uses the innate brain to transform universal forces into innate forces and creates mental impulses to maintain the material of the body in active organization (pri.21) which includes the educated brain which is an organ as real as the pancreas.
Third, “All thoughts then would be considered the produce of ei and ed. mind only”? The term mind in chiropractic means the ACTIVITY occurring in the innate or educated brain. In this case it is the educated brain. The educated brain is the actual brain TISSUE, educated intelligence is the CAPABILITY of that tissue to function and educated mind is the actual functioning (ACTIVITY) of the educated brain. The result of this ACTIVITY we call thought. In the innate brain that thought is manifested as a mental impulse which travel over nerves to give life to the organs of the body INCLUDING the educated brain. In the educated brain, it is also a mental impulse, a result of the ACTIVITY engendered by the mental impulse of the innate brain. That ACTIVITY will create thoughts different from person to person dependent on genetics, heredity, culture and numerous factors. Ex: One person will have the thought of killing someone with a car, while another person will have the thought to ride a car to Florida for a vacation We must remember that no organ, be it the pancreas or the educated brain, can FUNCTION without “thought”, direction, or stirring to ACTIVITY by the innate intelligence by way of the innate brain. ACTIVITY (educated mind)in the educated brain is due to the capability of the educated brain to function and is the result of mental impulses created in the innate brain from innate intelligence.
Fourth, “BJ said ii. contacted him directly with that “wee sma voice”, OSC says that can’t happen??????” Law does NOT have a “wee sma voice”…. it’s JUST law.
I hope this helps.
Great post Claude! One question: Would you say that “ACTIVITY (educated mind)in the educated brain is due to the capability of the educated brain to function and is the result of mental impulses created in the innate brain from innate intelligence” and the limitations of matter of the educated brain.
YES of course. It’s the same as the other organs of the body. Limitation of matter is intrinsic within ALL the matter of the body, which means every tissue cells including the educated brain. No exception!
This brings a very good point that Steve mentioned in one of his post regarding that sometimes the organs function PERFECTLY when there is no vs. This is true ONLY within the organs’ own limitation of its matter… something we tend to forget.
So, how do we describe the difference between an organ that is expressing 100% intelligence through limited matter and 100% intelligence through 100% matter?
Thanks Fellas, this refining of the philosophy is good. It is nice to know we are in a living profession, ie not all is known. I am happy to know we are still developing our understanding of ADIO and Chiropractic. I am also proud to know people like you guys, people at the front line of our philosophical unfolding. One aside: If an organ is performing it’s given task correctly, even though it is subjected to LoM, it is also a FULFILLMENT of Matter
What do you mean, fulfillment of matter?
Hey Scott, by fulfillment I just meant matter is doing what it is designed to do. I get tired of hearing about the inadequacy of the flesh. Innate Intelligence has limits too, it is limited by Universal Laws. Force is limited by it’s creation and the substance upon which it is conveyed. Yes the LoM are the most apparent but not the only limits to life, what about time as a limiting factor. We are now told that the Mental Impulse is only good for the exact moment of need and can not be dammed back up as BJ said, so ii. can not anticipate or recall a situation, that too is a limiting factor.
Joseph,
Your asked: “how do we describe the difference between an organ that is expressing 100% intelligence through limited matter and 100% intelligence through 100% matter?” This is such a probing question.
I’d like to hear from the group what they think.
I would say that it is like my son with down syndrome, his matter may not be 100 percent but 100 percent intelligence can still be expressed within it.
I don’t think we can educationally tell the difference, which is the beauty of all this. We don’t have to know something we are unable to know. We know subluxations are a detriment to optimal function, period.
Intelligence is ALWAYS 100%. I see no need to use a quantitative EVER in conjunction with intelligence (by intelligence I mean universal and innate not educated). The amount of force created by intelligence is ALWAYS in 100% (pri. 9). I see no need to use a quantitative EVER in conjunction with force. Matter is ALWAYS limited even it is 100% due to universal laws (and time is a universal law). Now principle #5 states: “In order to have 100% life, there must be 100% intelligence, 100% force, 100% matter.” Perhaps it would clarify the issue if it were stating: “In order to have 100% life, there must be intelligence, force and 100% matter.” Of course, in order for intelligence to have infinite expression, intelligence would require infinite matter. 100% is finite and that’s why matter is finite (read limited). We cannot quantify infinite.
This way it would make sense, since the interference is ALWAYS happening within matter (vs) changing the character of the innate force (mental impulse), which is constructive toward structural matter, back into a universal force (nerve impulse), which is destructive toward structural matter (pri.26). VS then, furthers the limitation of matter causing LESS than a full expression of the innate intelligence of the body.
This is the REASON why the objective of chiropractic is LACVS for a FULL expression of the innate intelligence of the body. Period.
Let’s not forget that when a body FUNCTIONS properly, it does so ONLY within the limitation of its own matter. If a body has less than 100% matter (only one kidney, no tonsils, no appendix), it will alter the organization of WHOLE body creating compensations which will be proportional to its limitations. If a body has vs, it will alter the FUNCTIONS of the matter of the body furthering the body’s limitations of matter. It is possible to have less than 100% matter and to have that matter functions properly. The activity of that matter may be limited (one kidney may produce less urination, no tonsils may bring about sinus congestion, no appendix less lubrication of the bowels) yet, the innate intelligence of the body will be present 100% within the body since it is ALWAYS 100%. In that case, the objective of chiropractic is, still, always was and always will be, to LACVS for a full expression of the innate intelligence of the BODY (with whatever quantity of matter is present).
Amazing isn’t it?